Extreme shaking on idle (idle logs included), need input

[Seaneezy]

Hi all,

Recently was able to get my car "running" after months of sitting. I siphoned old fuel (1/2 tank) from august of last year from the tank and put about an 1/8th tank of new fuel in (CA91). Unfortunately, I guess my temporary cowl did not prevent water from getting into the 6th cylinder spark well when washing it, so I started it and shut it off after about 5 seconds because it was obviously misfiring in every cylinder due to cylinder 6 not getting any spark. After soaking and vacuuming out the puddle in the 6th cylinder and putting new plugs in (the old ones were destroyed from old fuel my mechanic was running it with). I reset the adaptations, cleared the codes and started up the car again and did not get any misfire codes, and RPM tried to stabilize at around 800rpm but the car was shaking like crazy. I've seen rough idles but my a$$ was literally jumping in the seat, I shut it off for a few minutes then started it up to get a ~10 second idle log to help diagnose the issue. I am decently clueless to reading log values as I have to spend most of my time studying for compsci school, but I noticed I did not get any LTFT/STFT values, not sure if this is normal. I have not cleaned the vanos solenoids yet and the car has brand new motor mounts. I think my mechanic over-torqued the bolts on my aluminum valve cover, so I will retorque those but I don't think it was running long enough for an oil leak to drip into the spark channel. If the logs don't indicate anything major, I can take a video of the idle for support.

Logs: https://datazap.me/u/seaneezy/shaking-idle?log=0&data=12-13-16-20

Thanks!

 

[NoGuru]

I'm not great at reading logs but nothing stands out. Did you get any error codes? I would try and let it run for a little while and see if it settles.
I did have a Throttle body fail and the idle was very rough.

 

[doublespaces]

You're logging STFT and didn't get anything? Any codes for O2s? Did the car have ethanol in it? Does your car sputter or stumble on start up after being off over night?

 

[martymil]

your stuck in open loop in that log and the shaking is due to a most likely stuffed injector or injectors as you can
see the longer your running the leaner your getting.

i would add some e85 into the tank to raise the octane and throw in a bottle of injector cleaner like nulon professional
to see if it helps, start it for 30 seconds turn it off and do that again 3 or 4 times over the next 24hrs.

If it doesn't fix it you might be up for new injectors, unless something is unplugged or something got damaged whilst you changed the plugs.

Go over everything first.

 

[Seaneezy]

your stuck in open loop in that log and the shaking is due to a most likely stuffed injector or injectors as you can
see the longer your running the leaner your getting.

i would add some e85 into the tank to raise the octane and throw in a bottle of injector cleaner like nulon professional
to see if it helps, start it for 30 seconds turn it off and do that again 3 or 4 times over the next 24hrs.

If it doesn't fix it you might be up for new injectors, unless something is unplugged or something got damaged whilst you changed the plugs.

Go over everything first.

I'll run over to the dealership for some new seals/decouplers tomorrow so I can pull the injectors and see if they are leaking. They were fine before all the maintenance but I think my mechanic reused my seals or fucked them up somehow when he was checking out my valvetrain so I'll look firsthand. I have some lucas injector cleaner, haven't really had trouble with that brand before so I'll see if that helps. I only have 1/8th of a tank so I'll go really light on E85 considering I don't have the lines/pump for it either but I think you're right on about it being the injectors. Thanks for the input

 

[Seaneezy]

You're logging STFT and didn't get anything? Any codes for O2s? Did the car have ethanol in it? Does your car sputter or stumble on start up after being off over night?

No sputtering, It actually starts fine and in about 5 seconds it gets really rough. O2's are decently new. I have no idea why STFT/LTFT wasn't being logged, I selected it in MHD.

 

[rac]

No sputtering, It actually starts fine and in about 5 seconds it gets really rough. O2's are decently new. I have no idea why STFT/LTFT wasn't being logged, I selected it in MHD.

it seems you are logging stft / ltft, it is logging zero because the car is running open loop (marty said this). The car has probably thrown a code or it will if you ran it longer. I cant recall how long open loop is normal but it is normal engine management to start OL then switch to closed loop once the lambda sensors are warmed up. those AFRs in the first 10 seconds dont look believable to me, bmw probably spits out any rubbish initially while the lambda sensors are warming up. you might go lean at the end because while open loop the start up compensation table(s) will be gradually reducing start up enrichment fuel but for some reason you don go closed loop so fuel doesn't get added back in. fuel mixtures in the transition from start up to full operating temperatures are pretty impossible to be spot on without closed loop feedback. what were your stft's at idle when the car ran well?

alternatively, you might go lean at the end because the dme starts transitioning to what the lamda sensors are actually reading and you were lean the whole time, hence the sh8t being shaken out of the car.

if you log the car for 20 seconds what happens? based on the trajectory of those AFR curves the car should die. if it keeps running the same and both banks go ultra lean then i reckon you have at least 1 injector in both banks that is fked or fuel supply problem.

you should log manifold pressure also, your idle vacuum is probably off. Or otherwise if it is not reading correctly, like at all (like flat line) that will also fk your fueling up.

 

[Seaneezy]

your stuck in open loop in that log and the shaking is due to a most likely stuffed injector or injectors as you can
see the longer your running the leaner your getting.

i would add some e85 into the tank to raise the octane and throw in a bottle of injector cleaner like nulon professional
to see if it helps, start it for 30 seconds turn it off and do that again 3 or 4 times over the next 24hrs.

If it doesn't fix it you might be up for new injectors, unless something is unplugged or something got damaged whilst you changed the plugs.

Go over everything first.

Took 4 extra days past estimation for new seals to get in to check the injectors. They were a lot dirtier than usual after only running the car a total of ~1 hour since they were pulled, cleaned them like usual and put new seals in. I don't think they were properly secured, or they were just shoved in by my mechanic without new seals, I thought that could be the issue until I tried to start the car again to the same open loop, turned it off and found a small electrical fire on my 6th-cyl plug wires (attached). 3rd ground pin for 5/6 cylinder looks fine and was secured, not sure how this would have happened (made sure to tighten fuel rail connections, also didn't smell like fuel fire at all). I think this is probably the end of my time with these PR coils as they have caused me nothing but misfires even when I bought them to try to address misfires.

 

[NoQuarter]

Oh wow. So glad you caught that.

 

[rac]

Took 4 extra days past estimation for new seals to get in to check the injectors. They were a lot dirtier than usual after only running the car a total of ~1 hour since they were pulled, cleaned them like usual and put new seals in. I don't think they were properly secured, or they were just shoved in by my mechanic without new seals,

if you cap the injector seals when you remove them they dont always need replacement. if the injector bore is in good condition the seals will go in and out multiple times without issue. sounds like the tips are fouled up b/c of your misfires.

for reference i've pulled an old set of injectors (i was using as dummies) several times to view the tips and seals after running the car PI only for hours on end. it was quite some driving before the tips started to discolor and the seals were fine. do have a photo of the injector tips? reinstalling the oem coils would be one diagnostic starting point now that you have found a short, hopefully its not dme related.

 

[Seaneezy]

if you cap the injector seals when you remove them they dont always need replacement. if the injector bore is in good condition the seals will go in and out multiple times without issue. sounds like the tips are fouled up b/c of your misfires.

for reference i've pulled an old set of injectors (i was using as dummies) several times to view the tips and seals after running the car PI only for hours on end. it was quite some driving before the tips started to discolor and the seals were fine. do have a photo of the injector tips? reinstalling the oem coils would be one diagnostic starting point now that you have found a short, hopefully its not dme related.

Forgot that I took this picture of them, excuse the bad lighting. I've actually had to replace all of the PR connectors once already when I replaced my valve cover because the pin connectors would get bent extremely easy due to the way they insert into coil. I've already bent back a couple of them paying attention specifically to trying to insert them straight, and if I go back to PR after a bad diagnosis from the OEM coils, I will probably just break off the tabs and let the rubber hold it in place. Car also threw no codes while an electrical fire was happening underneath the hood...

 

[matreyia]

Took 4 extra days past estimation for new seals to get in to check the injectors. They were a lot dirtier than usual after only running the car a total of ~1 hour since they were pulled, cleaned them like usual and put new seals in. I don't think they were properly secured, or they were just shoved in by my mechanic without new seals, I thought that could be the issue until I tried to start the car again to the same open loop, turned it off and found a small electrical fire on my 6th-cyl plug wires (attached). 3rd ground pin for 5/6 cylinder looks fine and was secured, not sure how this would have happened (made sure to tighten fuel rail connections, also didn't smell like fuel fire at all). I think this is probably the end of my time with these PR coils as they have caused me nothing but misfires even when I bought them to try to address misfires.

Dude... stay away from your 'mechanic' if you want to not destroy your car.

 

[zomski101]

Just to make sure, when you reset adaptations, did you turn the car off then turned the ignition back on and wait 30 seconds before firing it up? Also, whenever I reset adaptations with protool my car will stay in open loop for some reason, until I reflash my tune with mhd.

 

[Seaneezy]

Just to make sure, when you reset adaptations, did you turn the car off then turned the ignition back on and wait 30 seconds before firing it up? Also, whenever I reset adaptations with protool my car will stay in open loop for some reason, until I reflash my tune with mhd.

IIRC you only have to do that procedure when you reset throttle adaptations, but I do it anyways. I still have a flash on the car, but when I fix back up the wiring I'll put it to map 0, just gotta find a battery charger as this brand new battery is already dying from troubleshooting.

 

[ajm8127]

I just had my injectors out because I am troubleshooting a similar problem. Car ran great until I stopped driving it everyday because I've been working from home. Noticed one day when I went to the store that the idle after a cold start was very rough and then I got misfire codes. It always calms down after about a minute to 650 ish. I also got a code for a rear O2 for "sticking rich, slow response" (2C7B). I changed plugs and walnut blasted because I don't want to buy injectors if I don't need to. I also reset lamda adaptations. I think there are two different types. It still idled rough right after a cold start, but smoothed out after the warmup routine:

datazap.me | ajm8127 | Cold Start

datazap.me

I took my injectors out. 3-6 looked clean on the tip but 1 and 2 had carbon buildup, though not quite as bad as your picture. I cleaned them with some CRC intake valve cleaner I had left from over cleaning my valves (the stuff works) and re-installed with new de-couplers and seals.

I was just about to start it but figured I'd check the coolant. It was fine. When I went to screw the cap back on I broke the damn float stick and the tip fell into the reservoir. I figured I'd like to keep that out of the cooling system so I had to take the expansion tank out to retrieve the broken piece. I ordered a new tank from ECS, but it's not here yet. I've probably taken off and replaced that cap dozens of times but it just must have been the way the cap pushed the float down and the plastic had probably gotten brittle from age.

So I wait.

@Seaneezy I think putting the stock coils in is a good step especially since you have trouble with the PR coils.

 

[STE92]

Injectors 99.999999999999999999999999% of the time and if is not that...the it is injectors.

 

[Seaneezy]

Injectors 99.999999999999999999999999% of the time and if is not that...the it is injectors.

repaired the wiring after waiting a month for the terminals to arrive (dealer had none). Started it back up for another open loop. LTFT is also at zero, and the car was working properly before me draining the old fuel from the tank. I noticed the smaller fuel hose on the pump had a ton of play that I never noticed before, could it be the LPFP? I can replace the injectors but the car was actually running with old fuel before doing anything with the injectors, so it would just be weird for them to just die out suddenly. Also de-flashed the car to stock to see if it would help, the idle seemed a lot better but still sputtered after ~15 seconds.

New logs: https://datazap.me/u/seaneezy/815-open-loop

 

[doublespaces]

repaired the wiring after waiting a month for the terminals to arrive (dealer had none). Started it back up for another open loop. LTFT is also at zero, and the car was working properly before me draining the old fuel from the tank. I noticed the smaller fuel hose on the pump had a ton of play that I never noticed before, could it be the LPFP? I can replace the injectors but the car was actually running with old fuel before doing anything with the injectors, so it would just be weird for them to just die out suddenly. Also de-flashed the car to stock to see if it would help, the idle seemed a lot better but still sputtered after ~15 seconds.

New logs: https://datazap.me/u/seaneezy/815-open-loop

Any particular reason you go out of your way to upload there instead of just swiping in MHD and selecting the spoolstreet option?

 

[Seaneezy]

Any particular reason you go out of your way to upload there instead of just swiping in MHD and selecting the spoolstreet option?

its just what im used to, updated mhd recently on my super old galaxy phone i use to log and never noticed the option.

 

[doublespaces]

its just what im used to, updated mhd recently on my super old galaxy phone i use to log and never noticed the option.

If you link your account here all your datalogs go to your account with one click. Graphs can be embedded directly into your thread, etc. No need to transfer files, upload more than 3 at a time etc.