Clutch Decisions

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Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
Hello all,

I've tried to do some research to answer my questions before resorting to creating a thread and feeling like I am beating a dead horse... but with all of the new information/products that are constantly being updated I felt as though reaching out for some help would be my best bet. I'm in the market currently for replacing the clutch in my FBO + Inlets/Outlets vehicle as it has essentially roasted the stock clutch that has been in the car for around 50k miles. Day to day driving is fine, but any time I decide to go WOT in 3/4th gear, the clutch slips (much more in 4th than 3rd [havent wanted to try it in higher gears]). The vehicle did this previously during some intermittently hard 1-2-3 shifts back before I had done FBO, so I have to admit I should have seen this coming one I decided to up the power level. So, since I am officially in the market, I'd like to ask some questions that I'm sure may be redundant--so please forgive me if they are!

The car in question is a 2007 coupe and makes (ballparking this) around 400/460. I've read online that the pre-2009 models used a 6-bolt dual-mass flywheel. I've seen it recommended to replace the DMFW as the springs can wear out. The DMFW has ~50k on it with most of them being gentler miles. I don't have any odd vibrations (typical of springs wearing out) while driving so I am assuming that it is in good condition. Of course, I would love to upgrade to a smfw but can't justify the pricing at this point in time. Is it required to replace the DMFW when replacing the clutch with OEM styled clutch kits? If not, does the DMFW need to be resurfaced? Of course, resurfacing a SMFW is expected, but I have read that DMFWs are unable to be serviced.

The stipulation I have currently is that I chose to rebuild my twins as the run well, but have major wastegate rattle. I'll be running this setup for a while as I'm pretty much invested into it at this point. What does catch my eye though is the price of single kits (log manifolds) lowering as more competition arises, and I find myself questioning if the 335is/550i clutch's specs. They are hard to pinpoint (I have seen 500-600tq on forum posts) as BMW doesn't give an official rating. I know that the 335is/550i clutch will withstand the abuse of maxed out turbos on e85, but would it also withstand per say a single kit pushing 550/600tq should I want to go that route in the future? More or less I am looking for a dependable and streetable clutch that can handle the power levels that I am currently at, as well as where I may end up down the road.

Aside from advice on that specific clutch kit - which seems to be the go-to for most owners, are there any other fairly priced setups? I am a current college student and looking to get the best for what little money I have to allocate away from tuition. With that said though, I don't want to cut any corners on the vehicle and have it prone for issues in the future. Are there any other recommended parts to upgrade while I am replacing the clutch? I understand that the kit comes with a ToB, various bolts, etc.

Should I choose to go with a 335is/550i clutch it will most likely be through FCP Euro as you really cannot beat that lifetime warranty. They do have two different clutch kits for the 335is/550i though. One is OE BMW @ $460 and the other is LuK @ $406. I've read that LuK also OE quality. Has anyone had experience with either or a recommendation. Is there truly a difference between the OE BMW 335is/550i Clutch Kit vs the LuK 335is/550i Clutch Kit? Truthfully my instincts (and wallet) tell me that the LuK is the better buy, and with the lifetime warranty I wont have an hassles if something fails unexpectedly. I could also allocated that extra $55 or so to anything else that needs to get done (much like my oil pan gasket and rear main seal...).

Thanks in advance for those who read this and reply!
 
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Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
Update:

Spoke with Rob @RB about the CHRA upgrades. Really nice guy, very knowledgeable about the market and the products he offers. Since I am going to be pulling the turbos (visit my previous thread as I ask questions about wastegate options/turbo upgrades) that will add some more $$$ to the total bill. That said, the 335is clutch seems to be the recommended clutch to go with -- assuming the DMFW is still in fair shape. If it proves to be, I'll be ordering the CHRAs as I plan to do everything at the same time. Would also like to try my hand at fabbing up a manifold heat shield to protect my inlets/outlets. If not, looks like a SMFW is in the works and I'll hold off on the CHRAs until I pull the trigger on a log kit as they become cheaper and cheaper over the next two years or so. Any way to check the DMFW without pulling the transmission out? I know there is a small peep hole near the bell-housing. Is it possible to check for spring failure here?
 

ccbsecu

Corporal
Nov 26, 2017
191
Not to hijack this thread....

I also need to upgrade my clutch as I plan to push north of 700 whp. Twin disk clutch and billet flywheel...?

FWIW - 2008 135i.
 
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Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
Not to hijack this thread....

I also need to upgrade my clutch as I plan to push north of 700 whp. DMFW and what clutch options should I consider, and/or eliminate...?

FWIW - 2008 135i.
No problem, ccbsecu! I wanted this thread to pool all sorts of information (as I said there is a LOT of options). For 700+ I see most people running a spec 3+ and SMFW. Although this is just what I have seen, I can't comment on anything other than that. Hopefully someone else can!
 
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Swedishpowah

Private
Dec 7, 2016
49
Greer, SC
If you've already had the clutch slip on you a few times there is a high probability of glazing the flywheel. DMFWs are not something that anyone will machine for you - so, I would strongly recommend that you replace the flywheel. Also, you've got your transition wrong - cars built prior to 2/2009 are 8-bolt and newer ones are 6-bolt. If you plan to stay under 500wtq, the 335is/550i will suffice but you'll be really pushing it at anything over that.
 

KevinC39

Corporal
Jun 27, 2017
189
Ccbsecu, you'll definitely have to switch to the SMFW. I don't think anyone has successfully run a Dual mass anywhere close to that. At least not that I've seen.
 

ShocknAwe

Lieutenant
Jan 24, 2018
838
SC
I'd just replace the flywheel. I put in a new clutch on the original dmfw at 70k miles since it was in good shape, and I wish I had replaced it. Noisy.
 

DR-JEKL

Private
Jan 16, 2017
34
Yeah its a bit of a dilemma...

Either you put in a 550i clutch and DMF and then in a year or so time when upgrading to ST have to rip it out and replace with a SMF and say a spec stage 2+ or 3+..

OR you could do the spec stage 2+ now and SMF albeit it's known to be lightly noiser then oem... The stage 2+ is known to hold decent power and FCP sell them so Id go with that route now, as a oem clutch and DMF wont be worth anything really used and you'd lose quite a bit of $ in labour doing it twice also (its expensive replacing all the bolts, clutch throwout bearing etc)
 
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Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,409
Boston
Yeah its a bit of a dilemma...

Either you put in a 550i clutch and DMF and then in a year or so time when upgrading to ST have to rip it out and replace with a SMF and say a spec stage 2+ or 3+..

OR you could do the spec stage 2+ now and SMF albeit it's known to be lightly noiser then oem... The stage 2+ is known to hold decent power and FCP sell them so Id go with that route now, as a oem clutch and DMF wont be worth anything really used and you'd lose quite a bit of $ in labour doing it twice also (its expensive replacing all the bolts, clutch throwout bearing etc)
Given the labor if you are doing it yourself or even a shop I agree, do it once and do it right if you want a real upgrade. My vote goes 3+ but I've never driven a 2+ I assume they are comparable.
 

Sixbanger

Specialist
Jun 20, 2017
76
I need a clutch and flywheel, I can’t make up my dam mind. I’m pushing around 400-450 right now. I plan to go 600 in the future. What would be the best compound for the clutch? Organic or carbon? Anyone use the brass pivot?
 

Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
I need a clutch and flywheel, I can’t make up my dam mind. I’m pushing around 400-450 right now. I plan to go 600 in the future. What would be the best compound for the clutch? Organic or carbon? Anyone use the brass pivot?
Similar position I am in. Currently pushing mid 400s or so, but plan on going larger in the future. I haven't seen a single knock on the Spec 3+ clutch and MFactory SMFW. I believe the 3+ is a carbon compound. I haven't seen any information on the pivot though... maybe someone can let us know!
 

Torgus

Captain
Nov 6, 2016
1,409
Boston
iirc the brass pin is in theory an upgrade only because it should not wear out/squeak. its small money. then again don't recall reading about the stock one wearing out afaik, not saying it does not happen. If you are in there you might as well do it, or at the least replace the stock pin at the very least. I would upgrade. See videos below:



Product Details

The pivot pin, located in your BMW's clutch fork, serves a very important function. Incredibly, the stock part is made from brittle plastic, which begins squeaking with each press of the pedal before eventually failing - requiring a transmission-out service to replace it.
Designed in-house at ECS Tuning, this upgraded bronze bushing will not only be more durable than the stock part, but it will also provide a smoother clutch feel. If you are planning a transmission swap, clutch replacement, or replacing a broken pivot pin, don't overlook this inexpensive but crucial upgrade.
 
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fmorelli

Brigadier General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
2,539
Virginia
iirc the brass pin is in theory an upgrade only because it should not wear out/squeak. its small money. then again don't recall reading about the stock one wearing out afaik, not saying it does not happen.
Designed in-house at ECS Tuning, this upgraded bronze bushing will not only be more durable than the stock part, but it will also provide a smoother clutch feel.
Obviously bronze and brass are not the same thing. Some make these in stainless too. What is interesting to me - I wonder if the ECS bronze bushing is self-lubricating or not ...

Filippo
 

Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
Alright guys, so decision time. Having a hard time figuring out if the SPEC 3+ clutch (#SB533F-2)
offered by FCP will in fact work with the MFactory SMFW (MF-TRS-09E92). I am seeing a SAC/Non-SAC clutches and would just like to confirm this combination would work together. If so, I'll also go ahead and order the pivot pin upgrade. Thanks!
 

Blaster3500

Corporal
Nov 5, 2016
229
SC
No it will not work together. SB533F is what you need if you want to run a mfactory flywheel. SB533F-2 is a non SAC (stock style) and can only be used with a spec flywheel made for non SAC clutches. It is flat and not stepped. A mfactory flywheel is stepped and accepts stock style clutches (SAC)
 
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Midshift

Private
Nov 30, 2017
38
Detroit
No it will not work together. SB533F is what you need if you want to run a mfactory flywheel. SB533F-2 is a non SAC (stock style) and can only be used with a spec flywheel made for non SAC clutches. It is flat and not stepped. A mfactory flywheel is stepped and accepts stock style clutches (SAC)
Thank you for the heads up. Would the SPEC Billet Aluminum Flywheel (SB53A-2) be compatible? How would this compare to the steel SMFW in terms of chatter? I guess I would rather have these items on a warranty (thanks to FCP) as opposed to buying without.
 

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